bowbender
Junior Hunter
IF YOU WAIT THEY WILL COME
Posts: 33
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Post by bowbender on Dec 9, 2006 22:10:00 GMT -5
Now i want everyone who reads this to be honest. how many of you guys manage the areas you hunt. Now i hear alot of people talk on this forum how they see all these does and small bucks. You want to see bigger bucks? SHOT THE DOES. Now just sit and think almost every breaded doe has 2 fawns a year sometimes three. so when you shot a doe you are really taking out 3 to 4 deer for next years population. A lot of you guys don't shot them because YOU LIKE SEEING THEM. you rather see does then nothing at all. All i am saying you guys, manage your areas. Stop shooting the first set of horns you see. meaning spikes,3,4,5,6,7, and even 8's. If they are young deer let them go. shot some does and MATURE bucks and I'm not saying 10 or 20 does just 2 or 3 a person, and in a couple of years you will see the improvement i promise.
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Post by THE DEER HUNTER on Dec 10, 2006 16:49:00 GMT -5
Without a doubt, I practice this in all of the areas that I hunt. I also try to pass it on to both the people I hunt with and other hunters, such as on this forum. I have harvested 3 doe this year and no bucks. I have seen several that will be shooters next year (6 to 8 points 16-18 inch spreads), but passed them up. I just hope the same was done by other hunters who may have seen them.
My personal criteria for harvesting a buck is a simple question....
Will I spend the money to get this deer mounted and proudly display him on my wall??
If the answer is yes then he is a shooter. Simple as that.
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Post by Hardcorehunter on Dec 10, 2006 21:16:41 GMT -5
In years past I shoot about 5-7 does a season. I thought this year I would let a lot more go in hopes of a buck that was a minutes behind them. I shot a doe opening week bow season and took a small buck during the rut. I misjudged his antlers in the excitement of the hunt. I tend to stick to the rule if its rack is inside the ears then I let it walk. A spike or a eight point falls in the same rules. If I waited to take a wallhanger I may never shoot another buck again. Even if a don't mount them I eat them and display the rack as a trophy.
I hunt seven different properties and it is hopeless to try to manage all of them. Some I take two does out of some none. But I do believe in letting little bucks get the chance to grow up and does thinned out. But Im not gonna lie I do like seeing the does. And when the rut roles in I like seeing the does being chased by the bucks! If a shoot alot of does in one area I think less bucks would pass through during the rut because of the little amount of doe selection. I do think more does less small bucks and the law that makes you take two does inbetween a second buck helps solve some of the problem.
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Post by captwahoo on Dec 11, 2006 6:05:14 GMT -5
We have been hunting our property since 1982, the first 15 years, if it was brown it was down. The ajoining land was bought in 98 and managed by a local hunt club. They became part of a deer management program. A biologist from DNR asseces there property and gave them 50 doe permits. That year they killed 28 doe's. The buck rule is, outside the ears, 8pt or better. We adopted the same rules on our property. Since that year, we have been seeing and killing much better big bucks. In 2004 the nieghbors killed a 14pt 26" spread, and field dressed at 224 lbs. A Monster. I always carry my camcorder and film all the deer I let go by. Opening day of Bow season, I filmed 5 young bucks, all beautiful little racks, that next year ought to be shooters. Management is the only way to truly improve your chances at a wallhanger. To me it is almost a fun to film them as it is to shoot them. Filmed a huge black bear sow, and her 2 cubs during bow season at 20 yards, shook like a kid. Got it all on film. My family loves seeing that stuff. Remember let the little one's go by.
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Post by THE DEER HUNTER on Dec 11, 2006 9:34:01 GMT -5
I bring a camera along with me as well. One thing about the 8 point rule though.... Some deer will not develop more than 8 points. My buddy killed a 6 pointer last year with a 24 inch inside spread. This was a mature deer, but only had 6 points... I also have a mature 7 pointer on my wall that I harvested about 5 years ago. This deer too was fully mature, but only had 7 points.
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Post by brettgerhart on Dec 11, 2006 9:49:59 GMT -5
I am going to try and manage the property behind my house. There are other guys that also have permission to hunt on it and I know that they do not practice this! I have about 10 doe that I see behind my house on my 3 acres. They are pretty consistent to staying there. I have read two different opinions. Do I shoot 2-3 and see bigger/more bucks next year or do I let them go and see bigger/more bucks next year? I have a hard time managing cause I do not get out much and I love the meat. Saves me a lot of money in the long run! If its brown, it's down has been my philosophy. This year I waited for my buck and got him. Very rewarding. That is the only deer that I have taken this year! So, how many doe should I shoot behind my house if any?
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Post by captwahoo on Dec 11, 2006 10:49:55 GMT -5
Form everything I have heard and read about deer management, for trophy racks, there should be 3 bucks for every doe. I not really sure how it works, but it raises the Testosteron level and creates bigger horn's on dominate bucks. The study also say's you need to provide a good supply of crude protein, I plant oats and chuffa, and weekly spread deer pellets you can get at gander mountain. They are 30% crude protein. I agree with you some racks never get to 8pts or better. Couple of years ago, we killed a huge (looked like a mule deer) six point. A definate shooter. I guess it is all common sense. We like to use the 8pt or better outside the ears. We have had good success in raising the standard of deer on our property.
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bowbender
Junior Hunter
IF YOU WAIT THEY WILL COME
Posts: 33
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Post by bowbender on Dec 11, 2006 19:29:29 GMT -5
i thank all you guys for your insight. i am glad to see some people care. (68 veiws to this thread and only 6 replys).
And Brettgerhart, even if you only get a little time in the woods, you can this practice this. i wish i could show you this property a friend of the family hunts. they started managing this land 5 to 6 years ago and the last three years they shoot an average of 20 to 25 does a year and also in the last three years they have taken 18 mature bucks and i mean mature, 75% of them are wall hangers and the rest of them are wall hangers to alot of other people. o yea by the way these people who hunt this land are 1 day a week hunters.
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Post by jlwade on Dec 11, 2006 22:20:50 GMT -5
i also suffer from wanting to see something walk by my stand to justify sitting all day, thats usually why i let the does walk. I have started in the last 3 years or so letting the small deer walk hoping to see them another day, before that i was shooting spikes and immature bucks. Past 2 years ive taken 3 nice bucks 2 in their prime and 1 on his way down(had 1 eye and was all beaten up) about 10 does and 1 fawn with a broken front leg
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Post by brettgerhart on Dec 12, 2006 7:58:02 GMT -5
I will give it a go! I will try and shoot some doe behind my house. It is bow only back there but I am sure I can get a few before the end of January! Intresting thread! Glad you guys shared your opinions. I have learned a lot!
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Post by ohiobowhunter on Dec 12, 2006 8:50:46 GMT -5
Bowbender, We have hunted not only our land, but private land here in ohio for more than 20 years and long before "deer management" was a recognizeable term, we were practicing it. Our goal was to always take our doe/"s" before our buck and when it came time for the buck it had to at least be out past his ears. We put this to effect because it is possible to have a 3-4 point be 18 inches!!! which is a mature deer, but it hasn't had the nutrition needed to obtain maximun potential. To further help out the buck-to-doe ratio, we have acquired kill permits in past years to bring down numbers. And to be honest I don't think you approached this in the most efficient way. Not to affend you, but deer managment is based on the person themself. You can't convince someone who has hunted all their life in the manner of "it's a deer shoot it" to hold back and wait for a bigger deer. We had a buddy hunting our land ever since we owned it and had to terminate his permission to hunt due to this. But to reiterate my point, it's based on whether the person is willing to give up their possible only chance to kill a deer to wait for a bigger deer.
Captwahoo, To have an outstanding land to hunt, it is beneficial to have a ratio of 1:1. This way genetics can still be spread throughout the herd. If the ratio is 3:1 there is going to be more competiton for does which can lead to injury and fatalities and less of the important mineral needed to grow maximum sized antlers. Yes you may see more bucks, but because nature has a way of "making things even" the growth of the antlers will deminish and you will have alot of weird racked bucks and basket racks. Antler growth is based on nutrition and genetics. I'm not too sure where testosterone plays a role in antler growth, if it does at all, but it surely plays an important role in the "rut." Not to say I'm not wrong, which I may be, but I don't think the adrenal glands which secrete testosterone, relate to the zyphoid processes in the scull of the buck.
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Post by THE DEER HUNTER on Dec 12, 2006 9:43:16 GMT -5
Everything that I have ever read states that there is a 2:1 buck to doe ratio that will provide for the best "trophy" hunting. I have not seen anything to verify this, but it is simply what I have read in the past.
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Post by powdernut on Dec 12, 2006 11:50:08 GMT -5
I pass on just about any buck that isn' t over 8 points, however I would shoot a 6 if the rack was large, I prefer to shoot the mature does . I wait patiently in the first part of the season and tend to pick it up once gun season comes in ,I process my own deer so I like to take most of my harvest in the colder/ late months of the season, when they can hang out for a day or so.However in the early months I will only shoot mature bucks,because if I am going to take it to the butcher it has to be worth mounting. Sad thing is there are too many people around my area that don't know how to manage hunt let alone hunt safely and they shoot the first thing that walks by with a rack. I could understand a first timer shooting a small rack because it's just that their first rack, but some guys who are experienced hunters like to shoot anything that moves.Just remember if this was as easy as some think it is then everyone would be doing it,if you want good harvests you have got to put the effort into it, by proper management.
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Post by captwahoo on Dec 12, 2006 13:09:03 GMT -5
I am no expert on deer management, in fact I am not an expert on much. The hunt club that borders our property joined a state run deer management program, in VA it is called DMAP. The DGIF sent a local Biologist to the property to make recommendations to the club. He told them how many and what types of food plots to plan, what his deer population was estimated at, and what steps he needed to take to produce Trophy deer. The first thing he did was give them 50 doe permits for that year. The explination he gave to the hunt club was, deer sense the lack of doe's and naturaly produce heavyier horns, If they are provided with the proper nutrition and minerals. He said this was due to the levels of testosterone in each animal. The second thing he told them was to not shoot any buck under 16" spread, or inside the ears. The third thing he recommended was mineral blocks, or protein pellets supplements throughout the year. We decided on protein pellets. He did say the ratio of bucks to doe's for trophy buck management should be around 3 to 1. I know from experience, the quality of deer on our property has increased dramaticlly. I don't know how many deer are on my piece of woods, but even the young bucks headgear is well formed and very simetrical. And I love watching those young one's go by.
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Post by THE DEER HUNTER on Dec 12, 2006 14:04:22 GMT -5
I wish more people would pass on the smaller ones too, but if it satisfys them, what are you really going to do?
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